Riot.im is now Element, and people are divided on it
Riot.im, a communications app and the flagship client of the Matrix protocol, became Element two days ago, July 15, 2020. This is not the only entity that was renamed; New Vector, Riot’s developer, becomes Element too. Modular, New Vector’s Matrix server hosting service, became Element Matrix Services.
They claimed that renaming Riot to Element was necessary since “Riot” was originally meant “to evoke something disruptive and vibrant - like a ‘riot of colour.’” They did not want it to be associated with “violence.” Also, problems regarding the trademarking of Riot became prevalent because it was already trademarked by a Chinese-owned game company. This decision came in spite of the fact that even Element can’t be trademarked in Germany)
This raised the eyebrows of homeserver owners like the IDDQD Press) and The New Co-Prosperity Sphere. Even people on Y Combinator have a love-and-hate divide on the rename:
The hardest problem in computer science strikes again! Matrix, Riot and Libolm are epic projects, I wish them all the success but man, even Riot was a hard sell as a brand. I would seriously be dissapointed if it loses popularity over this. I don't think the project maintainers understand that their core users/fans are waiting for a product they can sell to friends,family and coworkers. People who don't know tech rely on branding/brand reputation and word of mouth reputation to decide if they are intetested in even trying out a product to begin with. Which of these is unlike the others? 1) Signal 2) Telegram 3) Element 4) Whatsapp Hint: The theme is messaging and communication.
I actually don't like "Signal" either, because it's such a common word that it makes it hard to search for it online. "Telegram" is marginally better, since original telegrams are not very relevant today. But yeah Element is arguably even worse, it's a super common noun and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with communication. But in the end these naming discussions are always going to end up as bikeshedding. If the tech is good it'll probably manage to be successful despite its mediocre name.
Somehow I hadn't made the connection that WhatsApp sounds like "What's up" until now.
I don't like the new name, is too generic. I think an original alternative would have been better, like Trello, Slack, ...
After various HN threads about this company, and taking a tour on the element.io website, I'm still not sure what this is about to be honest. I understand it's a chat app, but - The pricing is really confusing (seems like the app is free, but having an account is paying ?). - Is this a professional thing, like slack, or more of a whatsapp-like thing ? Trying to do both ? The whole differentation point seems to be based on the Matrix thing, but it's not really clear why is that important ? (I don't typically care about the backend of the app I use). I mean, the front page says : "All-in-one secure chat app for teams, friends and organisations. Keeps conversations in your control, safe from data-mining and ads. Talk to everyone through the open global Matrix network, protected by proper end-to-end encryption." So, the starter is what everyone says. "Safe from data mining and ads" is good, it makes me curious about what is the pricing then, and I wouldn't mind paying a cheap price for a correct messaging app. And then there's this Matrix bit, and I don't even know if it's good or bad. So I went to the pricing page (which doesn't exist, but there are "plans") and here, well the app is free, and I can get my account hosted either somewhere free, or either on the Element Matrix servers, where it should be safe from eavesdropping ? But with proper end to end encryption, it should be safe everywhere ? Or is the app by default not end to end encrypted, but hosting it somewhere makes it so ? It sounds really weird to be honest. So really, good for you for renaming, but I don't think it's what will make me change (even though since whatsapp is facebook owned, I'm ready to migrate myself and my whole family on something else once the ads are there).
I like it. +1 Riot has a political connotation. It's good not to have to try and sell to other people that you're on "riot".
That's been long overdue and will hopefully help Matrix make inroads into more conservative organizations; I believe the tech is really promising. It's a definite liability, trying to introduce people to Matrix, when the de-facto default client's name evokes all kinds of unhelpful associations – it doesn't sound like work at all and it does sound like gamers, toys, apparently even like a far-left political organisation. Element should be fine for everyone.
As a homeserver owner, I immediately had to make some changes to the dns structure to anticipate changes to the matrix-docker-ansible-deploy
package my homeserver runs on. For example, I had to add a new element.*
subdomain to the already existing riot.*
subdomain and I had to change some links on the setup.
Now, the $64,000 question is: what would detractors call Element (the company) after its rename from New Vector, since they can’t call it “Jew Vector” anymore?
I am furious for no reason whatsoever.
last time I used Riot it was pretty much trash abandonware. You can't build a platform just on the fact that its private and "secure". Build something that actually completes with Shitcord and Slack.
It isn't abandonware at all, but it really attracts two userbases:
* obsura techies, and
* the dissident right
With a LOT of overlap between the two.
>obscure tech people
Not *so* obscure, a lot of software projects have Matrix rooms.
>Nazis
Also radlibs because performing "being oppressed/a dissident" is important for their self image. Same phenomenon with Pleroma.
>Same phenomenon with Pleroma.
There are basically two fediverses emerging at this point. One for the right and one for the left.
What fediverse do nazi bros use?
gab with all the disgusting boomers
Basically all Mastodon instances are controlled by SJWs/Cultural Marxists and all Pleroma instances are controlled by lolberts/alt-right.
There are a handful of exception but "a handful" among literally thousands is still an amazing development to behold.
>based third positionists and lolbertarians (ok I guess) use the superior, lighter software
Based as always
Even /g/ could come up with a better name.
What do you mean "even /g/"? That's what we do best.
I fail to see the evidence to that.
I thought it was making logos
Element is ok
https://github.com/vector-im/riotX-android/issues/1705
> Please replace "blacklist" with something more emotionally and psychologically safe
This is hilarious and if these people were more reasonable I'd just give it to them. However, because giving an inch means them taking a mile, I'd just deny this. We can still ridicule them for being insane on /g/, and if they render the product useless with this sort of thing then we can just fork it.
>we can just fork it
ill start on the logo
It's for the business end. Corpo types not keen on the riot name.
They also mentioned that they had copyright issues because of riot games.
https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy
start your server today lads
This really is the correct advice. Build up the milieu. Make it harder for jannies to quash us.
How does it work, is it like just some client-server thing or distributed like tox was?
It's federated like email, XMPP or Mastodon. Pure P2P versions (with a federated server running within the client) are in development too, but for now you need a WAN-accessible server to use it normally.
Nah, it's federated, which makes it more janny-proof than centralized services.
Well, because the average normie would think it relates to Riot games.
dumbest name ever
nobody would ever guess it is communcation software
it's not going to become a verb like google or facebook/whatsapp
>a verb like facebook/whatsapp
No one says facebooking. Or whatsapping instead of texting. "Googling" is in Merriam Webster. The other two won't get there.
Speaking of which, Google is really fucking lucky MW gives a VERY lenient definition, or else they could have kissed the trademark goodbye.
why be an annoying pedant about something youre wrong about
Why do you think your anecdotal evidence is better than mine? And on that note, what makes you think it's the same in other languages?
In the UK people say "whatsapp me" all the time. Although true, it's not strictly verbage as they mean to use WhatsApp rather than a generic term for any message.
Nice flag. I reminds me of something, but I don't
quite remember what it is.
Does anyone else feel this?
>TFW me and everyone who I brought onto my matrix server (~25) people have always said "message me on matrix" even though the app is called Riot
Part of this is that my domain where I host it is a phonetic misspelling of the word "matrix", but I still think they should have just stuck with "Matrix Communications" for the business name or something similar
They do the same on me. They refer to the entire Matrix fediverse as my homeserver's name.
I don't federate my server because that shit was really resource intensive.
>/g/ improves the logo
makes me proud
That logo look like a nazi symbol.
/g/ is a nazi tech board so that is appropriate
It’s meant to be a parody of their logo
>element nazi edition.png
Well since they renamed german armed forces and other Gov institutions have picked it as their in home messenger. A name like riot was problematic i guess.
>A name like riot was problematic i guess.
it was a copyright issue
arch package is still riot
Wrong, it got updated a few hours ago.
Element is fine you cucks. Works well on my Debian stable as well, so no complaints.
Can somebody post a room so we can test this shit out together?
did they get sued by league of legends? lmao
I put it on my phone as a signal replacement and it's a horrible experience verifying other sessions. Nobody told me I had to force quit the app for that functionality to work. Calls aren't using the system API so the ringtone comes out of the earphone instead of the loud speakers, it's silent as fuck and you can't select the ringtone at all. The only option is to set the system notifications settings to a ringtone of your choice but now there are two ringtones at the same time and the proper one doesn't get looped.
Have the devs ever used their phones?
I use XMPP+OMEMO
bassed
probably because it could be confused with Riot Games
In reality this is the entire reason for the name switch.
Name is shit and forgetful, the fucking logo is shit and doesn't even look anything like the name. This look like a poo or chink copy cat software name and icon.
I FUCKING HATE THIS SHIT
INSTEAD NICE SHORT WORD I GOTTA SAY ELEMENT.
just say matrix
Why not just matrix chat? Why are these organisations so obtuse when it comes to names?
Because they don't want to give themselves leverage by using the name of the protocol. The matrix protocol is a lot bigger than the Element client
Let test, /g/
https://matrix.to/#/!XTzLsJZtoHQrdqtAZm:matrix.org?via=matrix.org
Tbh, I understand why they would want to rename RIOT. But to rename it Element is completely retarded, they should've gone with something unique.
When you google for Element it doesn't even show up in the first page.